Author Topic: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions  (Read 67110 times)

Offline ssvb

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2014, 04:16:43 pm »
I can only speak for myself, but I feel some kind of fooled. It is already feelable, that the support for the CB1 and CB2 is running out. There is almost no compatibility between the boards, so if the developement process goes on for the newer boards (IF it goes on...) the older boards are obelete and the owners will be left behind.
Guys, just discover http://linux-sunxi.org. The http://linux-sunxi.org/Cubieboard status page says "The cubieboard is well represented within the main sunxi developer community and has excellent support both in u-boot as well as 3.4 and mainline kernels." The support for old hardware is only getting better. What are you not happy about?

If no A80 based board is released, then just Rockchip, Exynos and maybe Intel Atom boards are going to eat the lunch. The progress is unstoppable and the competition is very strong.

Offline lampra

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2014, 05:47:26 pm »
Hi,
I agree with ssvb that "the progress is unstoppable".

Nevertheless i would be happy if:
1. I had bluetooth support for the onboard chip for cubietruck (at least a backport of the solution used in kernel 3.13 to patwoods kernel)
2. There were drivers or some other software solution for 1080 video playback for cubietruck

Offline @lex

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2014, 06:04:11 pm »
ssvb is right, Intel is preparing a Full Integrated Graphics for their SOC, exynos is already there with linux, rockchip is almost there.
Cubietech and allwinner should get serious with Full Integrated Graphics and release the beast, i will be there for sure.

Or you guys are still using your motorola flip phone?

Offline ssvb

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2014, 01:59:02 am »
Nevertheless i would be happy if:
1. I had bluetooth support for the onboard chip for cubietruck (at least a backport of the solution used in kernel 3.13 to patwoods kernel)
Please note that we only have the linux-sunxi 3.4 kernel and the mainline kernel that are fully supported and maintained. You can surely merge something into patwoods kernels, but a lot of people are going to miss these improvements and they are going to be lost in the long run. As for the bluetooth support, I personally have no use for it and don't know much about what could be wrong there.
Quote
2. There were drivers or some other software solution for 1080 video playback for cubietruck
https://github.com/linux-sunxi/libvdpau-sunxi <- this works fine for me
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 02:21:52 am by ssvb »

Offline lampra

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2014, 01:16:49 pm »
@ ssvb
Thank you for your answer.
Please note that some people need bluetooth today, not after 1-2-3 years.
On top libvdpau-sunxi only decodes of h264, mpeg1 and mpeg2.

Offline ssvb

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2014, 01:49:56 pm »
Please note that some people need bluetooth today, not after 1-2-3 years.
If they really urgently need bluetooth, then I believe they can buy and use a cheap USB bluetooth dongle. Or try the mainline kernel, where the cubietruck's built-in bluetooth is allegedly already supported: https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-sunxi@googlegroups.com/msg00218.html

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On top libvdpau-sunxi only decodes of h264, mpeg1 and mpeg2.
Which video format do you want to decode?

Offline Jojo

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2014, 06:43:05 am »
I can only speak for myself, but I feel some kind of fooled. It is already feelable, that the support for the CB1 and CB2 is running out. There is almost no compatibility between the boards, so if the developement process goes on for the newer boards (IF it goes on...) the older boards are obelete and the owners will be left behind.
Guys, just discover http://linux-sunxi.org. The http://linux-sunxi.org/Cubieboard status page says "The cubieboard is well represented within the main sunxi developer community and has excellent support both in u-boot as well as 3.4 and mainline kernels." The support for old hardware is only getting better. What are you not happy about?

If no A80 based board is released, then just Rockchip, Exynos and maybe Intel Atom boards are going to eat the lunch. The progress is unstoppable and the competition is very strong.

I do partial agree with you. As I already mentioned before, I of course understand that the HW developement process is going on and it would be a pitty, if there would be no improvements in the future.
But: what I mean is about the support in the community like here in the forum! OK, there is the sunxi-wiki. But when I am looking for information or if there are any questions, I would first have a look into the forum and NOT in the wiki (as there is no possibility to ask questions).

For me, there are two different processes:
  • Developement of new hardware
    • done by cubitech
    • progress is running good (CB, CB2, CT, etc...)
    • many demands of people have been adapted (BT, WiFi...)
  • Developement of software (Linux distros, programs,...)
    • done MAINLY be the community
    • very few people who have the skill to do that
    • if these few developers leave (or just stop working) the "consuming" part of the community has a problem
    • The SW developement depends on the HW where it should run

Now I think about following (quite realistic) scenario: the community is founded and slowly growing based on the first boards (CB1 and CB2). Some few people are willing to do most of the SW developement.
Now another board (CT) is released. Yes, it is powerful, but also only very limited compatibel to the previous boards.
The developers now focus on the newer board (understandable). But what about the owners of the old ones?
Over time, new members join the community, but the will surely have the lates HW (why should the by old HW, if there is more powerful newer HW?). If there are also new developers they will surely do good work, but only for new HW, so old HW support gets lost over time. Ok, now you can say "This is normal." Yes it is. but not in such a short period of time and it is also contra-productive to found a living community on rapidly changing HW. FMPOV this is not possible.

Don't get me wrong, I know, that HW HAS to change over time and HAS to be improved. But looking at the "old" CB2 we are far away from reaching the limits of the board. There was (and still is) high potential for many demanding projects. Thats why people decided to buy these boards.
I strongly believe, that the very majority of the CT or CB4 owners will newer reach the limits of their boards. That makes me believe, that the would also go fine with a CB2 vor example. But afraight of the obsolescence they decide to buy the other boards, and that makes the SW support for the old ones die out.

We will see what the future brings.
Don't think that anyone will take more pains for his answer, as you took for your question.

Offline ssvb

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2014, 10:01:11 am »
But: what I mean is about the support in the community like here in the forum! OK, there is the sunxi-wiki. But when I am looking for information or if there are any questions, I would first have a look into the forum and NOT in the wiki (as there is no possibility to ask questions).
http://linux-sunxi.org/Category:Community has all the information. Even if this particular forum is dying off in isolation from the rest of the linux-sunxi community, not many people really care. At least not the people who are doing actual work supporting the Allwinner based hardware.

Offline Jojo

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2014, 11:19:26 am »
But: what I mean is about the support in the community like here in the forum! OK, there is the sunxi-wiki. But when I am looking for information or if there are any questions, I would first have a look into the forum and NOT in the wiki (as there is no possibility to ask questions).
http://linux-sunxi.org/Category:Community has all the information. Even if this particular forum is dying off in isolation from the rest of the linux-sunxi community, not many people really care. At least not the people who are doing actual work supporting the Allwinner based hardware.

I understand, but this particular forum is about particular hardware! linux-sunxi is a very big and of course a very good thing. But in the same way as it is more "general", it is naturally less specific. The problem I see is not about the whole sunxi family. It is just specific about the Cubieboards.
Lets say person A has a question regarding the schematic of the CB2. But person B owns a Olinuxino-board. Yes, the are all in the big linux-sunxi family. But person A's question is about a specific board and not about the architecture of the A20.

Of course, this is just an example, but maybe you understand what I mean.
Don't think that anyone will take more pains for his answer, as you took for your question.

IvanYeung

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2014, 02:15:45 am »
RPi is a good example. No powerful and n-cores cpu, no endless pins and i/o, no big ram, just provide a solid kernel and os is enough! Developers can then make useful application of the boards!

I think CB is lagging in kernel development, which is not everyone can do without strong hw and sw experiences.

for my next board, i will pick one with better original developer support.

Offline mcecilia

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2014, 02:57:33 am »
Hello Sirs,
I also agree with the previous ones.
The software and support is the key point, all the other will be found in other boards. Also, opening Mali drivers for XBMC and others.
Thanks sirs

Offline ssvb

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2014, 03:11:39 am »
I understand, but this particular forum is about particular hardware! linux-sunxi is a very big and of course a very good thing. But in the same way as it is more "general", it is naturally less specific. The problem I see is not about the whole sunxi family. It is just specific about the Cubieboards.
Lets say person A has a question regarding the schematic of the CB2. But person B owns a Olinuxino-board. Yes, the are all in the big linux-sunxi family. But person A's question is about a specific board and not about the architecture of the A20.
What you say does not make much sense. It's kind of like asking about a solution for some generic software problem, but refusing to listen to other people unless their PC is exactly the same Dell model as yours :) Yes, some hardware related questions such as the schematic are indeed CB1/CB2/CT specific. But such questions are 1) very rare and 2) a lot of people in the linux-sunxi community have the same hardware and can help with this too (surprise, surprise).

All the Allwinner A20 based devices are using exactly the same kernel. You have no need to ask for a personalized support specifically for your board! All the differences between boards are entirely isolated in the fex files here. These fex files are presented in a human readable text format and describe the hardware specific things (like the use of 100Mbit or Gbit ethernet, GPIO pins mapping, available USB ports, etc). The right fex file for your board is taken and converted into a machine readable script.bin file, which is just a binary representation of fex. If you are moving from one A20 board to another, you only need to replace the bootloader and the script.bin file on the SD card. The kernel and the OS remain the same.

If you compare the quality of Linux support for different ARM hardware, Allwinner A20 is one of the best.

Offline ssvb

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2014, 03:37:16 am »
I think CB is lagging in kernel development
And this is based on what?

Quote
for my next board, i will pick one with better original developer support.
I'm afraid that you are going to have a much worse experience with your next board. Unless you abandon ARM and go x86, or stick with the under-specced Raspberry Pi. Only Raspberry Pi is somewhat special, because they target really inexperienced users and do a lot of babysitting in their forums.

A few of the cubieforums.com resident babysitters (who used to do a great job, btw) have gone, and now you think that the sky is falling. This is ridiculous. Most of the real linux-sunxi kernel development just happens elsewhere and has not slowed down even the slightest.

Offline Jojo

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2014, 03:45:54 am »
What you say does not make much sense. It's kind of like asking about a solution for some generic software problem, but refusing to listen to other people unless their PC is exactly the same Dell model as yours :) Yes, some hardware related questions such as the schematic are indeed CB1/CB2/CT specific. But such questions are 1) very rare and 2) a lot of people in the linux-sunxi community have the same hardware and can help with this too (surprise, surprise).

I tried all the time to get your point. Everybody here is thankful for your help. But you instead branded my thoughts as sensless?! Completely unwilling to even understand what I mean or what problems might occure to the CB community, but answering with irony and sarcasm?! Inappropriate behavior for a serious discussion partner. Sorry, this conversation is over  :-X .

Don't think that anyone will take more pains for his answer, as you took for your question.

Offline Fuzzlix

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Re: CubieTech A80 High-performance Mini PC discussions
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2014, 09:12:21 am »
I think CB is lagging in kernel development
And this is based on what?
probably expirience?
You try to defend the curent state of the game and you do not accept there are still driver/firmware tasks open.
I as a bloody linux beginner expect
- a complete driver support. This includes a Xserver that supports any hardware acceleration aviable.
- flawless and documented firmware (wifi/BT chip for instance)
- full documented boot code
- hardware documentation in english but chinese (in case you want to sell your hardware outside china)

There is a german saying: "Meine Hand für mein Produkt". I expect the same point of view from any company i buy from ... or i never buy again.

You may accept it or ignore it. Its up to you.

Fuzzlix.